notionclubarchivesfandomcom-20200214-history
Talk:Orcs
Lifespan In his Myths transformed Essay Tolkien states that the lifespan of Orcs was short compared to those of men.This seems to contradict Bolg's obvious long life... but it still may be explaneable if some of those greater Orcs like Bolg or Azog had a strong strain of elven or maiarin Blood.--Haerangil (talk) 06:38, April 22, 2013 (UTC) Origin of Orcs Tolkien's Ideas about the orcish origin are contradicting.In Myths Transformed and unfinished Tales he states they descended from Men and thus were mortal... however in Myth transformed he relativises this statement and adds "there may have been some elven strain".This Idea that Orcs were of mixed elven- and mortal origin seems to be late.Then there is the idea that Orcs were sentient beasts... that may be true for some slave-orcs, but certainly not for the quite intellgent Warrior-Orcs as they appear in the books.--Haerangil (talk) 06:38, April 22, 2013 (UTC) I agree, which is why I advise the reader that these are just theories, and not widely accepted. I think they may still be handy references for Middle-earth Role Players who want to know everything there is to know about "expanded Middle-earth" Orcs, however.--Olorin-Incanus (talk) 17:38, April 22, 2013 (UTC) That's not quite how it happened. Tolkien originally imagined them as being made from mud and granite, but since evil is impotent, they had to come from something else. Elves, obviously. But he felt that Elves were too good to be corrupted in such a fashion, so he then looked at beasts. But Orcs obviously have free will, so first he assumed there was an Elvish strain in Orcs, and then he went back to stating that Orcs were Elves entirely again. But Orcs from Elces, it didn't feel right to him...then he looked at mortal Men. It seems that his last ideas were that they came from Men or a combination of Elves and Men. I read the letters of Myths Transformed and I checked the dates. That seems to be the order. SuperGrantZilla (talk) 06:06, January 2, 2015 (UTC) I agree.--Haerangil (talk) 11:39, January 2, 2015 (UTC) Female Orcs Since we are not bound to the Tolkien canon here, we could add more details about orcish culture from the MERP Books.For example Gundabad and Grey Mountains both mention Orc Women.These Orc Tribes seem to have kept their females secluded from the rest of the tribe and only the strongest Warrior-Orcs were allowed to reproduce.There are even Harems mentioned, for the Chieftains and Elite-Orcs.Orcish Imps (children) are raised in groups selected by age and sex, older Orc-Matrons have the duty to feed, supervise and raise them. I donÄt know ifr this is true for all orc tribes or if there also were Tribes in which females fought and lived along with males.At Last Saviga, the consort of Zalg, is said to have raised to a position of some ower and respect in Gundabad.What do you think?--Haerangil (talk) 17:21, April 22, 2013 (UTC) I think that's a great idea, Haerangil. Can you give me the exact pages these details are located on in Gundabad and Grey Mountains? This sort of information would be crucial to the society and culture section and the physiology and biology sections.--Olorin-Incanus (talk) 17:41, April 22, 2013 (UTC) :Goblin Gate p.18, 21, 22 mention Harems, breeding-pits and Imps.Gundabad p.13,14,30,39,40,43,46,47,48,50,53, there's also mentioned that orcs are considered mature at the age of 9. The Durb-atha are mentioned p.9, the Nazg-atha 9.20. engineers are mentioned p.54 (although a different title is used there).Ered Mithrin p.66,67. Lords of middle-earth III gives more information about orcish society and reproduction... p.87 about orcish nature, 88 preproduction.Matriarchs and matriarchial tribes are mentioned p.88 too.--Haerangil (talk) 20:10, April 22, 2013 (UTC)